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A.J: When do you think Ueshiba Sensei mastered that "art of relaxing?"
Tohei Sensei:
I think it was probably when he was living in Ayabe and heavily involved with the Omoto religion. Ueshiba Sensei often told a story about one day when he was standing by a well wiping himself off after training and he suddenly realized that his body had become perfect and invincible. He understood with remarkable clarity the meaning of the sounds of the birds and insects and everything else around him. Apparently that state lasted only for about five minutes, but I think it was then that he mastered the art of relaxing. Unfortunately, he always talked about that experience using religious-sounding expressions that were more or less incomprehensible to others.

Before the war Sensei taught at the Naval Staff College, where he had Prince Takamatsu (a younger brother of the Showa emperor) as one of his students. On one occasion the prince pointed at Ueshiba Sensei and said, "Try to lift up that old man." Four strong sailors tried their best to lift him but they couldn’t do it.

Sensei said of that time, "All the many divine spirits of Heaven and Earth entered my body and I became as immovable as a heavy rock." Everybody took him literally and believed it. I heard him say that kind of thing hundreds of times. For my part, I have never had divine beings enter my body. I’ve never put much stock in that kind of illogical explanation.

Once when I was with Sensei in Hawaii, there was a demonstration in which two of the strong Hawaiian students were supposed to try to lift me up. They already knew they couldn’t do it, so they didn’t think much of it. But Sensei, who was off to the side watching, kept standing up and saying, "Stop, you can lift Tohei, you can lift him! Stop, make them stop! This demonstration’s no good!"


Tohei demonstrating in Hawaii shortly after his arrival

You see, I had been out drinking until three o’clock in the morning the previous evening, and Sensei knew what condition I had come home in. He said, "Of course the gods aren’t going to enter into a drunken sot like you! If they did they’d all get tipsy!" That’s why he thought they would be able to lift me. In reality that sort of thing has nothing to do with any gods or spirits. It’s just a matter of having a low center of gravity. I know this and it’s what I teach all my students. It wouldn’t mean anything if only certain special people could do it. Things like that have to be accessible to everyone if they’re to have any meaning.

People with so-called "supernatural powers" are usually the only ones who can do whatever it is they claim. Others can’t do what they do and they can’t teach what they do, because what they do is not real; it’s fake. Anybody can do the things I teach. They’re alive in aikido techniques just as they are. All you have to know is how to do them correctly, and viewing them as supernatural powers requiring the presence of some god or what have you is a big mistake. I regard it as my responsibility to teach correctly.


Teaching US Servicemen

 The Personality of Morihei Ueshiba
A.J:
Were there any notable personalities in the dojo back in 1940 or 1941—any who would later make a name for themselves?
Tohei Sensei:
There was no one like that when I first went. There were no students and hardly any uchideshi.

A.J: What were your strongest impressions of Ueshiba Sensei?
Tohei Sensei: He seemed to me like a nice old man. Smiling, you know. In many ways he had a very child-like personality.

A.J: We have quite a few documents about O-Sensei, but it is still difficult for us to get a picture of him in his day-to-day life. Did he talk about ordinary, everyday subjects? From the recordings we have of him speaking, he seems almost like he came from another planet.
Tohei Sensei:
Yes, I know what you mean. He certainly did talk that way.

A.J: I’ve heard that sometimes he would suddenly explode in anger.
Tohei Sensei: Yes, that happened often. He was kind to women, though. I never saw him get angry at a woman. Curiously, his anger was never specifically directed at the person he was supposedly angry at. It was like he was just furious by himself, unable or unwilling to direct his anger at its object. Once a young student named Kurita happened to notice that Sensei had shifted in his chair a bit and moved to adjust it for him. Sensei exploded at him, and demanded to know what he was doing. The poor fellow had no idea what was going on until I explained that Sensei had mistaken his action for some kind of mischief.

A.J: What was O-Sensei’s attitude when you started basing your teaching around the principles of ki?
Tohei Sensei:
He was jealous and told people not to listen to me. He would say, "Aikido is mine, not Tohei’s. Don’t listen to what Tohei says." He would peer into the dojo and say things like that, especially when I was teaching a group of women. In that respect he was quite child-like in his directness and lack of sophistication—very spontaneous and innocent. People connected with various religions would come to the dojo and get money out of him by flattering him with names like "Morihei Ueshiba, the kami of aikido." He hardly ever spent money on himself, but he always seemed to be strapped for cash because he kept giving it away to people like that.

A.J: What were your strongest impressions of Ueshiba Sensei?
Tohei Sensei:
He seemed to me like a nice old man. Smiling, you know. In many ways he had a very child-like personality.

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INTERVIEW
with Master Koichi Tohei

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Singapore 2002

Tokyo 1986

Master Tohei Younger Days

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